No disrespect, but my so called bashing goes both ways. I try to educate people a little here and there, from both sides. I have enough work, oddly enough the latest project is undoing a disaster created for a customer by two members of this board and the sister site. Even stranger the customer contacted me directly after reading my so-called bashing posts, so believe it or not I don't offend everyone. No one on the manufacturing end has a livelihood if it isn't for the customer. If someone comes here, posts work and has a bad experience they may never come back, worse yet someone might drain the last amount of money they had in a project and it never gets to market, the next Bill Gates could have been stopped dead in his tracks by what I refer to as a hack. The first time RFQ poster here is shooting in the dark. My so-called "snide remarks" sometimes are a clue to the RFQ poster on something to think about when considering bids. I have sent messages to RFQ posters on jobs I don't bid on what questions a skilled machinist will ask. I have no problem if someone wants to work for $5 an hour, just don't make the guy junk, as that ruins it for all of us. I am not a rocket scientist, but unless the extremely low bidder has a big advantage equipment wise over his competition he is most likely to turn out poor work. People who turn in bids with out asking questions obvious to someone skilled is tipping their hand they don't know what they are doing. I don't know your experience level, but I have worked in this trade long enough to not be proud of it's general morality, I am glad I am a self employed army of one.